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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Relativity / July 2005



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photon stuff...

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Ken S. Tucker - 28 Jul 2005 08:47 GMT
The energy of a photon is given by

E = hf .

Examine that carefully. The "frequency f" is
a rate that is expressible by,

f = n/t

where "n" is a number, h is action.

In order to establish a rate of action, "n" must
equal two, and the period "t" separating the actions
needs two actions to define the frequency, thus,

E = 2h/t  == 2 actions/time = rate of action,

is the minimum definition of a photon, assuming
action "h" is physically quantized, as is currently
accepted.

Does that seem reasonable?
TIA
Ken
Bilge - 28 Jul 2005 12:02 GMT
Ken S. Tucker:
>The energy of a photon is given by
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Does that seem reasonable?

 No. It doesn't describe the photon. For one thing, the photon energy
isn't quantized. The energy levels of bound systems are quantized.
The photon is quantized by its spin, which is just 1 \hbar.
Ken S. Tucker - 28 Jul 2005 16:44 GMT
> Ken S. Tucker:
>  >The energy of a photon is given by
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> isn't quantized. The energy levels of bound systems are quantized.
> The photon is quantized by its spin, which is just 1 \hbar.
Ken S. Tucker - 28 Jul 2005 17:01 GMT
> Ken S. Tucker:
>  >The energy of a photon is given by
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> isn't quantized. The energy levels of bound systems are quantized.
> The photon is quantized by its spin, which is just 1 \hbar.

Agreed,

Photon at frequency=1,

h........h

Photon at f=2

h....h

Photon at f=4

h..h

at f=8

h.h

E=h*f = action/time, and time is not quantized.
Ken
Autymn D. C. - 31 Jul 2005 02:31 GMT
Planck time
FrediFizzx - 31 Jul 2005 03:20 GMT
| Planck time

Dinner time sounds way better to me.
Signature

FrediFizzx

http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.pdf
or postscript
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.ps

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) - 31 Jul 2005 05:23 GMT
Dear FrediFizzx:

> | Planck time
>
> Dinner time sounds way better to me.

Plank time *is* dinner time... to a termite!

Bah-dum-dum!

David A. Smith
Ken S. Tucker - 29 Jul 2005 17:25 GMT
> The energy of a photon is given by
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> TIA
> Ken

It would be most clear if I used a physical demo,
based on Coulombs Force , "q" and "Q" are charges.

F= qQ/x^2   and  qQ = Fx^2.

Among the most famous of torsions in spacetime
is the antisymmetric EM field tensor "F_uv",
however that tensor resists definition on a continuum,
i.e. at a point. Fortunately Mr. Francis permits a
tensor defined by a relation between two points
finitely separated, and we agree (I think) a torsion
needs two finitely separate points.

Allow me to set two separate CSs (Coordinate Systems),
with an origin on charge "q" and the other on "Q".

I'll denote components "q^u" and "Q^v" as finite lengths
or time that relate charges "q" and "Q".

For example, a common axis connects "q" and "Q"
spatially, and by the definition a length uses time
x=ct to obtain the magnitude but ct has no direction.

The distinction spatially is q^1 = - Q^1 as the charges
are certainly in relatively opposite spatial directions,
but the times upon which those spatial components
are based are magnitudinally q^0 = Q^0.

These definitions permit the qQ = Fx^2 from above to
be written in a Generally Covariant fashion as,

2qQ = q*F_uv q^u Q^v .

Set and define,

F_01=Q/x^2 = - F_10 ,

q^1=-Q^1 , q^0 = Q^0

and find that a resulting "2qQ" from the torsion
that relates charges "q" and "Q", is invariant.

That relates to units of action "Plancks h" by

h =qQ  (neglecting the scalars for units), giving

2h = q*F_uv q^u Q^v

from above.

>From the definition

g_uv = s_uv + a_uv

and using

a_uv = q*F_uv

we can "surmise"  s^2 to be

s^2 = g_uv q^u Q^v

to represent the invariant spacetime difference
between charges "q" and "Q".

Splitting g_uv into symmetric and antisymmetric

= (s_uv + a_uv) q^u Q^v

= s_uv q^u Q^v + 2h .

Classically the "s_uv" are the metrics used in GR,
but over a length instead of at a point.

Of course the above is superficial, it shows how
torsion, (EM), QT's "h" and GR can relate tightly,
when the continuum definition of g_uv is dispensed,
and then the invariant "2h" emerges naturally.

Regards
Ken S. Tucker
 
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