The Inside Out Universe.
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Max Keon - 26 Dec 2005 23:52 GMT My previous attempt at this was fairly ordinary.
-------- The Inside Out Universe.
Whatever our circumstances of existence, right here is where we are compelled to perceive the universe. We can do absolutely nothing to change that. We can only theorize and observe until a theory comes along that predicts why the universe behaves in the way it does. But that's the best we can possibly do.
Light invariably moves at some speed relative to matter, and as a consequence, matter invariably moves at some speed relative to light. That still holds even for relativistic matter velocities (relativistic relative to a local and very much larger mass that is). It's impossible for light and matter to ever be stationary relative to each other. **They do not and cannot ever exist in the same realm.** Directly comparing time-distance in the realm of light using measurements taken in the realm of matter is illogical. Matter exists only in the present, while light travels only in the past and future. The past and future coincide with the present when E/M radiation intersects with matter. **And that's the only time.**
Picturing the divergence of a light beam as a maze of point particles that in themselves don't diverge, makes it impossible to understand why light should behave differently to matter. http://www.optusnet.com.au/~maxkeon/planck.html
If a ring laser gyro could be constructed to encircle the earth around the equator the standing waves around the ring would be moving west at 465m/sec relative to any fixed point on the equator, on average for each sidereal day. The only valid explanation for this phenomena is that the speed of light pointing east is 2*465m/sec slower than it is pointing west. The average east-west speed of light for anything fixed to the equator is then 465m/sec slower than in the ECI frame. An anisotropy in the one way speed of light must then exist around anything fixed to the earth's surface.
Speed of Light Anisotropy Proven Beyond Doubt; is the proof. http://www.optusnet.com.au/~maxkeon/fizza.html
Simple geometry demonstrates that the round trip time for an E/M wave front traveling back and forth between two mirrors in an east-west orientation alters at the rate of t' = t/(1-v^2/c^2).
Each frame of the animation was extracted from the result of running a Qbasic program which was designed to simulate two E/M wavefronts that always move at a constant rate across the screen. The screen represents the non rotating frame of the earth (ECI frame), which is assumed to be the base on which light propagates. In the east-west direction (right-left), E/M wavefronts are emitted simultaneously in opposite directions from the center of the apparatus and are each reflected from mirrors at each end which are equally spaced about the center. In the animation, the apparatus is set to move relative to the screen pixels at half the speed of the wavefronts, which is equivalent to half the speed of light.
http://www.optusnet.com.au/~maxkeon/eastwest.gif
The Qbasic program can be found here http://www.optusnet.com.au/~maxkeon/eastwest.exe as a self extracting zip file. The animation generated by the program is equivalent to many thousands of the above and it's entirely interactive, even at the program level. The file should be 7171 bytes after it's extracted. Qbasic is an amazing communication tool.
The time for the journey increases with velocity of the apparatus relative to the screen according to the measured round trip distance in pixels for the moving apparatus, divided by the round trip distance for the apparatus when its velocity is zero, relative to the screen. The wavefront and the apparatus each measure the distance in compounding steps, and the result is equivalent to using the equation t' = t/(1-v^2/c^2) (assuming that light propagates on a base which is set by the ECI frame). A pure light clock would function according to that equation. But that would not be the case for a clock oscillator which includes matter in its tick function. The two oscillators are certainly not the same.
In the real world, when the wavefront is moving in the same direction as the motion of the beam source, because the rate of divergence of the wavefront into the dual dimension around its propagation path remains constant, and because the time taken to cover the distance to the mirror has increased, the wavefront rate of divergence relative to the source will have increased. When it's moving in the opposite direction to the motion of the beam source the rate of divergence will reduce by the same amount. Which isn't going to affect anything in either direction because the propagation path for the entire diverging beam is along the line of motion.
However, when the beam is pointed perpendicular to the direction of motion, due to the beam's sideways motion relative to the base on which light propagates, the time-distance between source and mirror has increased, for the entire journey. The arm lengths of the apparatus haven't changed, only the time to travel the distance has changed, and as a consequence, so too has the beam divergence rate relative to the source. As before, the beam diverges further into the two planes perpendicular to the beam path as velocity of the source increases. But the added divergence is now of some consequence. The diverging beam is now shifting into two planes of dimension that are perpendicular to the motion direction of the beam source.
As the source velocity increases, both the length of the light path and the beam width increase in exact proportions. That's a 2D change rate. The path scribed by the beam enroute to the mirror, the measured path length to the mirror, and the distance that the source has traveled in the time, must each be squared before any valid comparisons can be made. If c=1 and source velocity is .5c the leg lengths of the right angle triangle are (C^2=A^2+B^2) = 1.25, 1, .25 And that's where the comparison stops. Taking the square root of any of those measurements brings them back into the realm of matter, but the comparison is no longer valid.
When matter enters the realm of light, the rules of the matter realm no longer apply. Why on earth should they?
-----
Max Keon
Bill Hobba - 27 Dec 2005 05:16 GMT > My previous attempt at this was fairly ordinary. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > consequence, matter invariably moves at some speed relative to > light. Not quite. Moving at some speed relative to something means we can attach a coordinate system to it and measure your position relative to that coordinate system. You can not do that with light.
Bill
> That still holds even for relativistic matter velocities > (relativistic relative to a local and very much larger mass that [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > > Max Keon glucose - 27 Dec 2005 11:23 GMT > > My previous attempt at this was fairly ordinary. > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Bill wrong
whay attaching heuristic bullshit from here to there you moron
how tha fok you attach somthin to stomthin else traveling as fast as you cant even see it
whay not doing a simple parametrization then doing a line integral along its path
have yo a phd like us every body else?
> > That still holds even for relativistic matter velocities > > (relativistic relative to a local and very much larger mass that [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > > > > Max Keon Bill Hobba - 27 Dec 2005 11:51 GMT >> > My previous attempt at this was fairly ordinary. >> > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > have yo a phd like us every body else? Thinking of your oral exam leaves me in stitches. After impressing the examiners with your wonderful command of the English language and winning little terms of endearment like 'how tha fok' and 'you moron' you would obviously be a cinch to pass. But then again it does seem unlikely - to even get that far you need to demonstrate basic writing skills, reasoning, and creativity beyond thinking up different names to post your rot under so people can't even killfile you. In short you would need to be different than the maladjusted computer nerd you obviously are.
Bill
>> > That still holds even for relativistic matter velocities >> > (relativistic relative to a local and very much larger mass that [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] >> > >> > Max Keon donstockbauer@hotmail.com - 27 Dec 2005 12:12 GMT You cannot attach a coordinate system to light??????
Bill Hobba - 27 Dec 2005 12:55 GMT > You cannot attach a coordinate system to light?????? Of course not. Particles are at rest in their own coordinate systems - by the very definition of what a coordinate system defined by a particle is - photons can never be at rest.
Bill
N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) - 27 Dec 2005 13:00 GMT Dear donstockbauer:
> You cannot attach a coordinate system to light?????? In addition to what Bill Hobba said... - what finite length could you assign to objects? - what finite energies could you assign to objects?
Really not much good such a "coordinate system" would do you.
David A. Smith
Tom Roberts - 27 Dec 2005 15:44 GMT > You cannot attach a coordinate system to light?????? This depends in detail on what you mean.
Certainly there is no inertial coordinate system in which a light beam is at rest.
If one expands the meaning of "coordinate system" to general coordinates as in GR, one finds there are no orthogonal coordinate systems with axes parallel to light beams. This is so because a 4-vector parallel to a light beam has a norm of zero, and if the metric components were orthogonal then the matrix of components would be degenerate, indicating the coordinates are not valid (i.e. one is attempting to use <4 real coordinates to cover a 4-d spacetime).
One can create coordinate systems with axes parallel to light beams, as long as one uses _two_ such light beams in different directions, and _two_ spacelike axes; there is no time coordinate in such a system, and no timelike object can be at rest relative to it. Despite their unusual character, such coordinate systems can be useful in GR.
Tom Roberts tjroberts@lucent.com
Hero.van.Jindelt@gmx.de - 27 Dec 2005 22:45 GMT > You cannot attach a coordinate system to light?????? In special theory light is propagating through vacuum with the constant speed of light, with c, so one might choose one point of the front of a light pulse moving away from it's source in a straight line as a center, an origin of a coordinate system. One has even cartesian right angles as the magnetic and the electric axes of an electromagnetic wave are perpendicular to each other and to the direction of propagation. One has also a measure, a yard-stick, in the form of one wavelength. But, You see, in theory we need an observator in this coordinate system. But in theory no observator can accelerate so much, that he reaches the speed of light. Some might know animismus. It's the belief, that every stone, every ...let's say hair-dryer, every ...and so forth has a soul, an anima of it's own. In the same way every coordinate system has an observator, even better a co-ordinator. Think for Yourself: Without a co-ordinator, there is no coordination of systems of reference (like a coordinate system is) to the theory. and without the theory, what is left over? That must be the ultimative horror of pure real everyday world, even existing, when no one is looking. Have fun Hero
Max Keon - 29 Dec 2005 23:10 GMT >> My previous attempt at this was fairly ordinary. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> consequence, matter invariably moves at some speed relative to >> light.
> Not quite. Moving at some speed relative to something means we can > attach a coordinate system to it and measure your position relative > to that coordinate system. You can not do that with light. All light has an absolute frame from which it never strays and all matter invariably moves at some speed relative to that frame. Light doesn't need a coordinate system because it doesn't move anywhere in its own realm, even though we see it going every which way. From the viewpoint of anyone anywhere in the universe, light from the entire universe is coming toward them, and the image of each person is also going out to every part of the universe. It's hard to picture a universal frame in that lot, but that's only because we are compelled to comprehend the universe from the realm of matter.
Everything that has happened over an eternity in the realm of matter has been an instantaneous event in the realm of light because light is dumped onto a non existent plane from which matter and all of its required parameters are drawn into existence (at the speed of light), in an "every which way" action. Light is a recorded message of an interaction between the components of matter that was occurring in the present some time in the past and it remains embedded in the past until it's played back in the realm of matter when matter crosses its path, in much the same way as the story etched onto a vinyl record is played back when the stylus comes along and rattles over the wiggles of the recorded message. But in this case, the wiggles can be completely removed in the process. But the recording itself carries no energy whatever. In a sense it doesn't exist. But it's now a real component in the structure of the universe.
E/M radiation that has been ejected from a charge relationship has permitted the charges to form a closer relationship. Until that relationship is put back the way it was, the universe has evolved just that little bit more. Until every bit of E/M radiation is returned to achieve an absolute separation between every opposite charge in the universe, the universe will continue to exist. If just one "blip" remains recorded, a relationship between charges still exists somewhere in the universe. The universe is certainly in no danger of disappearing though. The opposite is very much the case.
http://www.optusnet.com.au/~maxkeon/the1-1a.html tells the rest of the story. I can't blame you if you don't know what I'm talking about, I have trouble with it myself even after 30 years. You should try explaining it.
> That still holds even for relativistic matter velocities > (relativistic relative to a local and very much larger mass that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > future. The past and future coincide with the present when E/M > radiation intersects with matter. **And that's the only time.** -----
Max Keon
|
|
|