Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
Biology
BiologyBotanyMicrobiologyEntomologyEvolutionPaleontology
Chemistry
General ChemistryAnalytical ChemistryElectrochemistryOrganic Synthesis
Earth Science
GeologyMineralogyOceanographyMeteorologyEarthquakes
Physics
General PhysicsResearchRelativityParticle PhysicsElectromagnetismFusionOpticsAcousticsNew Theories

Natural Science Forum / Physics / Relativity / April 2006



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

"Where Is The Kinetic Energy of a Bullet Stored?"

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Sptth - 22 Apr 2006 15:13 GMT
"Where Is The Kinetic Energy of a Bullet Stored?"

    When a bullet is fired, an explosive charge imparts kinetic energy to
the bullet. That kinetic energy travels with the bullet and is transferred
to the target when the bullet strikes. The question to be answered is where
that kinetic energy resides while the bullet is in flight. It obviously
travels with the bullet as is shown by the fact that stopping the bullet
anywhere along its flight path will impart that energy to the stopping
means. Where that energy is stored is revealed by the corrected Lorentz
Transformations for Velocity using the more rational F,L,T system of units.
To accomplish this it is first necessary to correct an error made in the
derivation of the Lorentz Transformation for Transverse Force. Apparently,
for some hare-brained reason, this transformation was apparently derived
using Maxwell's Equations instead of making use of the basic Lorentz
Transformations and E=M*C^2 alone. The use of this approach led to the
conclusion that the Lorentz Transformation for Transverse Force was the
reciprocal of its correct value. The fact that an error existed in that
derivation was revealed by the classic "Right Angle Lever Paradox" which
those familiar with undergraduate level physics and/or mechanics should be
able to demolish in a few minutes.

    Let us consider that an idealized bullet which, when at rest consists
of three ideal "mass less" springs at right angles to each other and aligned
with one of the springs parallel to the bullets of the path. The "rest mass"
of the bullet is then inserted in the springs by compressing them equally.
The energy stored in each of the springs is half of the product of the
distance of the their compression and their stiffness. When kinetic energy
is added to the bullet, the force compressing the parallel spring is
increased by the Lorentz Transformation for Parallel Force, which is unity,
while the distance of compression is reduced by the Lorentz Transformation
for Length and energy must LEAVE the parallel spring. WE can conclude, as a
result, that energy must leave the parallel spring and travel in the space
around it (presumably in a disk oriented perpendularly to the velocity
vector).

    In the transverse axes, however, a different situation exists. The
distance which these springs are compressed is unchanged by the velocity but
the force required to compress the spring is INCREASED by the Lorentz
Transformation for Transverse Force. As result, the energy of compression
stored in the transverse springs is increased proportionally. The energy of
compression in these springs is increased in direct proportion to the
increase of kinetic energy of the object. It would appear, therefore, that
kinetic energy is stored within the moving object and in a disk like
(perpendicular to its velocity vector) region of space around the object.

    The source material for this posting may be found in
http://einsteinhoax.com/hoax.htm/ (1997);
http://einsteinhoax.com/gravity.htm (1987); and
http://einsteinhoax.com/relcor.htm (1997). EVERYTHING WHICH WE ACCEPT AS
TRUE MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE WE HAVE ACCEPTED AS TRUE, IT
MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH ALL OBSERVATIONS, AND IT MUST BE MATHEMATICALLY
VIABLE. PRESENT TEACHINGS DO NOT ALWAYS MEET THIS REQUIREMENT. THE WORLD IS
ENTITLED TO A HIGHER STANDARD OF WORKMANSHIP FROM THOSE IT HAS GRANTED WORLD
CLASS STATUS.

    All of the Newsposts made by this site may be viewed at
http://einsteinhoax.com/postinglog.htm.

    Please make any response via E-mail as Newsgroups are not monitored on
a regular basis. Objective responses will be treated with the same courtesy
as they are presented. To prevent the wastage of time on both of our parts,
please do not raise objections that are not related to material that you
have read at the Website. This posting is merely a summary.

    E-mail:- einsteinhoax@isp.com. If you wish a reply, be sure that your
mail reception is not blocked.

    The material at the Website has been posted continuously for over 8
years. In that time THERE HAVE BEEN NO OBJECTIVE REBUTTALS OF ANY OF THE
MATERIAL PRESENTED. There have only been hand waving arguments by
individuals who have mindlessly accepted the prevailing wisdom without
questioning it. If anyone provides a significant rebuttal that cannot be
objectively answered, the material at the Website will be withdrawn.
Challenges to date have revealed only the responder's inadequacy with one
exception for which a correction was provided.
noshellswill - 25 Apr 2006 05:03 GMT
> "Where Is The Kinetic Energy of a Bullet Stored?"
>
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> Challenges to date have revealed only the responder's inadequacy with one
> exception for which a correction was provided.

Big-S:

Sorry ... kinetic energy does not travel, though you may calculate kinetic
energy. Neither does prudence blush nor may you damn hell.

nss
*********
GSS - 25 Apr 2006 15:34 GMT
> "Where Is The Kinetic Energy of a Bullet Stored?"
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> anywhere along its flight path will impart that energy to the stopping
> means. ...........

Instead of considering the bullet as a whole, let us consider just one
microscopic particle P of mass m from the bullet. Since P is moving
with the same average velocity as that of the bullet, it will have its
own share of momentum (p) and kinetic energy (E). This microscopic
particle will be accompanied by the de Broglie waves and its wave
function (psi) can be described by the Schrodinger's wave equation for
a free particle. The kinetic energy of P can now be correlated with the
wave function psi through the energy operater.

Now isn't it possible that the kinetic energy of this micro particle
may be stored in its psi wave function?

GSS
Tom Roberts - 26 Apr 2006 04:04 GMT
>> "Where Is The Kinetic Energy of a Bullet Stored?"
> [...]
> Now isn't it possible that the kinetic energy of this micro particle
> may be stored in its psi wave function?

No. The kinetic energy of a bullet is "stored" in the same place its
speed is "stored" -- nowhere. It simply is not possible to "store" such
attributes of an object. <shrug>

Tom Roberts
GSS - 26 Apr 2006 18:48 GMT
>>> "Where Is The Kinetic Energy of a Bullet Stored?"
>> [...]
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> Now isn't it possible that the kinetic energy of this micro particle
>> may be stored in its psi wave function?

> No. The kinetic energy of a bullet is "stored" in the same place its
> speed is "stored" -- nowhere. It simply is not possible to "store" such
> attributes of an object. <shrug>

In Physics, velocity is not an attribute that is conserved. But
momentum and kinetic energy are definitely the attributes of a micro
particle that are conserved. Conservation of these attributes implies
that the values of the associated parameters, p and E, will remain
constant at all times in the absence of external interactions. Of
course during external interactions values of these parameters for a
specific particle may change but the sum total of these parameters for
all interacting particles will still remain same.

Obviously when the momentum and kinetic energy of a micro particle are
conserved, these quantities or the quantum of these attributes must
somehow be associated with that micro particle or be 'stamped' on that
particle, or be 'stored' with that particle.

Yes, these attributes are 'associated' with or 'stored' in the psi wave
function of that particle. The wave function psi(r,t) which is a
solution of the Schrodinger wave equation, is analogous to the
classical trajectory r(t).  For a micro particle, the energy and
momentum can be represented by differential operators that act on the
wave function psi. Hence there should be no doubt whatsoever that the
momentum and energy attributes of a micro particle are definitely
'contained' or 'stored' in the psi wave function.

GSS
GSS - 27 Apr 2006 13:22 GMT
Well, there may be no doubt that the momentum and energy attributes of
a micro particle are 'contained' or 'stored' in the psi wave function.
But the doubt remains as to the real entity which is *waving* in the
psi wave. What exactly is the nature of the entity that the psi wave
consists of?

Does the psi wave consist of EM field or gravitational field or any
other known field?

Does the psi wave consist of longitudinal waves or transverse waves or
their mix?

If I hold the micro particle under consideration at the tip of my
finger, will its psi wave totally vanish to represent the zero momentum
and zero kinetic energy?

Would someone like to venture an opinion on these tricky questions???

GSS
Randy Poe - 27 Apr 2006 14:20 GMT
> Does the psi wave consist of longitudinal waves or transverse waves or
> their mix?

No. A wave function is not a traveling wave, nor does it
have to have any time dependence as the above oscillating
phenomena do.

> If I hold the micro particle under consideration at the tip of my
> finger, will its psi wave totally vanish to represent the zero momentum
> and zero kinetic energy?

No, if it is in a bound ground state, it will have a position
and momentum wave function whose uncertainties are related
by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

                      - Randy
GSS - 28 Apr 2006 15:44 GMT
> > Does the psi wave consist of longitudinal waves or transverse waves or
> > their mix?

> No. A wave function is not a traveling wave,

The micro particle under consideration is traveling in space. How come
the associated  psi wave is not traveling with it?

>nor does it  have to have any time dependence as the above oscillating
> phenomena do.

Are you sure the psi wave function doesn't have to have any time
dependence?

GSS
Randy Poe - 28 Apr 2006 16:05 GMT
> > > Does the psi wave consist of longitudinal waves or transverse waves or
> > > their mix?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> The micro particle under consideration is traveling in space. How come
> the associated  psi wave is not traveling with it?

Came in late I guess. I thought you were asking a general question.

For a traveling particle, the wave function is indeed a traveling
one. The wave function of a free electron moving at velocity
v is A*exp[i*(kx - wt)], which does indeed have the form of a
traveling wave.

However, I'm not sure how you'd apply the word "tranverse" or
"longitudinal" to such a thing, since A is complex and does not
represent a displacement of anything physical.

> >nor does it  have to have any time dependence as the above oscillating
> > phenomena do.
>
> Are you sure the psi wave function doesn't have to have any time
> dependence?

I saw the end of your question (a bound particle) and thought you
were talking about a static situation above as well.

                  - Randy
Sue... - 27 Apr 2006 20:32 GMT
> >> "Where Is The Kinetic Energy of a Bullet Stored?"
> > [...]
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> speed is "stored" -- nowhere. It simply is not possible to "store" such
> attributes of an object. <shrug>

What is *possible* and what your favorite gravitational
theory can explain, may not be the same.

http://www.research.ibm.com/grape/grape_ewald.htm
http://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/liquids/inddip.html

^shrug^ with shoulders and attitude.

Sue...

> Tom Roberts
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.