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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Relativity / August 2006



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H.Munera - antiestablishment crank?

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rambus2005@yahoo.com - 30 Aug 2006 16:47 GMT
More from Apeiron, H.A. Munera thinks that the photon has rest mass:

http://redshift.vif.com/JournalFiles/Pre2001/V04NO2PDF/V04N2MU2.PDF
vergon@gawab.com - 30 Aug 2006 18:01 GMT
> More from Apeiron, H.A. Munera thinks that the photon has rest mass:
>
> http://redshift.vif.com/JournalFiles/Pre2001/V04NO2PDF/V04N2MU2.PDF

VERGON

Shakespeare said "... a sound and fury signifying nothing."

Occam would be spinning in his grave if he saw this chopped salad of a
wide range of theories and concepts leading to a ridiculous conclusion
-- the REST mass of the photon.

KSS

The photon in flight has a mass. The only time a photon is at rest is
when it is absorbed by an electron. Both the energy and the mass are
transfered to the electron. The photon exists no more --- and so its
REST mass is zero.

As for the mass of the photon, we start with the mass of an individual
oscillation
which is 7.3720385 x 10^-48 gram. This is hf/c^2  where f is 1. (see
Einstein's second paper of 1905)

Now that mass times the frequency NUMBER will yield the mass of the
photon.

Observe further, that mass times the frequency number of the electron,
proton, and neutron will yield their respective masses.

This shows that radiation and matter are constructed of the same basic
element,

The difference being that the elements in radiation are arranged in a
sequential manner, and in matter they are arranged in a standing wave
concentric manner,

When a high energy photon hits a backstop, it collapses from a
sequential arrangement into a concentric one. This is known as pair
production.

Since pair production  produces an electron and a positron, this tells
us that radiation consists of both matter and antimatter constituents.
Golden Boar - 30 Aug 2006 20:20 GMT
> > More from Apeiron, H.A. Munera thinks that the photon has rest mass:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Now that mass times the frequency NUMBER will yield the mass of the
> photon.

This is disproved by experimental evidence.
For example, the mass of a photon with a wavelength of 550 nm would be,

f = c / lambda = 5.45 * 10^14
m = 7.372*10^-48 * 5.45*10^14 = 4*10^-33 grams

The limit on photon mass is less than 10^-51 grams, as described here:
http://www.aip.org/pnu/2003/split/625-2.html

> Observe further, that mass times the frequency number of the electron,
> proton, and neutron will yield their respective masses.

This is untrue. for a massive particle,

f = E_kinetic / h = gamma.m.c^2 - m.c^2
gamma.m =/= h / c^2 * f
m =/= h / c^2 * f

However, if instead of frequency you use Compton frequency f_C, we get,

m = h / c^2 * f_C

But this is no surprise, since from the Compton wavelength equation,

lambda_C = h / m.c
c / f_C = h / m.c
c = h.f_C / m.c
m.c^2 = h.f_C
m = h.f_C / c^2

> This shows that radiation and matter are constructed of the same basic
> element,

And that element is energy.

> The difference being that the elements in radiation are arranged in a
> sequential manner, and in matter they are arranged in a standing wave
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Since pair production  produces an electron and a positron, this tells
> us that radiation consists of both matter and antimatter constituents.
Harry - 31 Aug 2006 08:38 GMT
> More from Apeiron, H.A. Munera thinks that the photon has rest mass:

There are several in this NG who consider that! See for example
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/4cb21a96fbf1d372?hl=en&

> http://redshift.vif.com/JournalFiles/Pre2001/V04NO2PDF/V04N2MU2.PDF
rambus2005@yahoo.com - 31 Aug 2006 15:01 GMT
> > More from Apeiron, H.A. Munera thinks that the photon has rest mass:
>
> There are several in this NG who consider that! See for example
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/4cb21a96fbf1d372?hl=en&
>
> > http://redshift.vif.com/JournalFiles/Pre2001/V04NO2PDF/V04N2MU2.PDF

Yes, I know. The difference is that they don't get published.
 
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