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Natural Science Forum / Physics / Relativity / December 2006



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For Dr. Enders , spacetime.

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Ken S. Tucker - 30 Dec 2006 21:21 GMT
An Alternative to the conventional Minkowski Metric.
======================================
In flat space you set g_00=g_11=g_22=g_33=1 and
g_0i = -dx^i/dx^0, that works very well when merging
SR with GR.

The thing most researchers avoid are nonorthogonal
metrics like g_0i, but aberration happens when relative
speed separates CS's, so you can't really hide it by
using sqrt(-1), just because g_0i looks complicated.

Unfortunately SR was established algebraically,
and a sort of evolution occurred employing the use
of tensors by Einstein for GR. What should have
happened, in a more ideal historical hindsight,
is to begin with,

  U_u U^u = 1   {u=0,1,2,3}  U^u = dx^u/ds

as a definition in SR. Then expand that to
detail time and space as,

  U_0 U^0 + U_i U^i = 1  ,{i=1,2,3}

The U_i U^i is *absolute velocity* and since one
can always find a CS where motion of something
is zero, is the same as saying motion is relative,
hence,

  U_i U^i = 0 = absolute motion

is the covariant way (for all CS's using tensors)
of writing "motion is relative".

Of course relative motion is retained by U^i
(by choice) and being non-zero generally produces,

  U_i = 0 generally.

Now you can use association to obtain,

  U_i = g_iu U^u = 0

and expand index "u" in time and space {0,i} to,

  0 = g_i0 U^0 + g_ij U^j .

Use a bit of algebra and see,

  g_i0 = - g_ij U^j/U^0 = - g_ij dx^j/dx^0 .

Specifing a flat space-time metric g_ij
simplifies to the Kronecker delta and so,

  g_i0 = - dx^i/cdt  simplified,

and is aberration...a real effect well
established by experiment.

Now let's stick those nonorthogonal critters in

  ds^2 = g_uv dx^u dx^v

by expanding indices "u" and "v" over time and space,

  ds^2 = g_00 dx^0 dx^0 + 2 g_0i dx^0 dx^i

       + g_ij dx^i dx^j

>From far above, sub in g_0i = - g_ij dx^j/dx^0 and get

  ds^2 = g_00 dx^0 dx^0 - g_ij dx^i dx^j  (generally).

Sub in a simplified metric g_00, g_11... =1 and
dx^0 = cdt to get the familiar

  ds^2 = c^2 dt^2 - dx^2 - dy^2 - dz^2

that Minkowski and later Einstein needed for GR.

In relativity, the important thing is to deal
with relative motion and the vanishing of
*absolute* motion at the outset, otherwise a
lot of spooky-kooky aberrations appear, (I won't
hang other's dirty laundry in public), that I
think is best expressed by the tidy,

  U_i = 0  .

Anyway if the metric system you choose finds

 U_i U^i =/= 0

you may have a problem.

Above, we see the only metric compatible with U_i=0 is,

 ds^2 = g_00 dx^0 dx^0 - g_ij dx^i dx^j  (generally).

Note the total absence of g_i0 terms when absolute
motion is excluded and relativity is strictly invoked,
essentially "collapsing" the metric relativistically.

Finally, we need to ask if a non-zero result of the
equation, U_i U^i is truly indicative of absolute
motion as I've assumed?

Regards
Ken S. Tucker
kxsxt
Tom Roberts - 31 Dec 2006 02:32 GMT
> An Alternative to the conventional Minkowski Metric.
> ======================================
> In flat space you set g_00=g_11=g_22=g_33=1

You seem intent on mathematical masturbation, and have completely lost
sight of what physics is.

Physical theories are supposed to be a model of the world we inhabit --
but we do NOT observe 4 spatial dimensions as your Ansatz implies.

> and
> g_0i = -dx^i/dx^0, that works very well when merging
> SR with GR.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with either SR or GR. And even less to
do with any "merging" -- GR is a generalization of SR, and no "merging"
is required, because SR is just GR applied to the Minkowski manifold.

> What should have
> happened, in a more ideal historical hindsight,
> is to begin with,
>    U_u U^u = 1   {u=0,1,2,3}  U^u = dx^u/ds
> as a definition in SR.

But that did "happen" -- that is valid in SR, for a timelike object with
4-velocity U (as you specify up there). Whether or not one takes it as a
"definition" depends on what specific set of postulates one is using,
but this relationship is inescapable in SR. And GR (with a different
metric, of course).

> [... rest omitted]

Tom Roberts
Ken S. Tucker - 31 Dec 2006 10:34 GMT
> > An Alternative to the conventional Minkowski Metric.
> > ======================================
> > In flat space you set g_00=g_11=g_22=g_33=1

Check out Tom Roberts goofy ideas on evolution,
you'll split a gut reading this...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Sun, Jun 25 2006 4:53 am
Email:         Tom Roberts <tjroberts...@sbcglobal.net>
Groups:         sci.physics.research

Dr Tim wrote:
> How would the universe be different if there were only one grade of
>lepton?

I'm not sure about the universe, but consider life on earth:

Life on earth would surely have evolved considerably differently
without
the constant bombardment of muons from cosmic rays entering the upper
atmosphere. At the earth's surface the cosmic radiation is >99% muons
(ignoring neutrinos), and they are an important source of the random
mutations in the genome that provide "raw material" for survival of the
fittest to work upon to generate the evolution of new species. Given
the
idiosyncratic history of evolution here on earth, if it had been slowed
down by even 0.1% we humans would not be here yet; of course without
muon-induced mutations the history of evolution would surely be quite
different, with little likelihood of human-like creatures ever
appearing
-- that's my point.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL, Roberts needs to stand in front of muon
beam for a few thousands years more :-)
Ken
Dirk Van de moortel - 31 Dec 2006 11:20 GMT
>> An Alternative to the conventional Minkowski Metric.
>> ======================================
>> In flat space you set g_00=g_11=g_22=g_33=1
>
> You seem intent on mathematical masturbation, and have completely lost
> sight of what physics is.

He never had *any* sight of what physics is.
What he does have, is a mere BS in mathematics
and a chronic condition of refusing to listen to other
people, the technical term for which is "autism".

Dirk  Vdm
Pmb - 31 Dec 2006 11:58 GMT
>>> An Alternative to the conventional Minkowski Metric.
>>> ======================================
>>> In flat space you set g_00=g_11=g_22=g_33=1

For Minkowski coordiinates that is true true.

>> You seem intent on mathematical masturbation, ...

Is there another term you could use other than that you could use?

>> and have completely lost sight of what physics is.>

>>> Is there another language which you can use now  in which you can now
>>> use?

Pete
Dirk Van de moortel - 31 Dec 2006 12:36 GMT
>>>> An Alternative to the conventional Minkowski Metric.
>>>> ======================================
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Is there another term you could use other than that you could use?

Pete, if you killfile someone (in casu Tom), you better not reply
to them through someone else's messages (in casu mine).
If you killfile someone, the idea is that you cannot see what he
writes and that you don't want to talk to the person anymore.
If you notice something he wrote through someone else's
message, then quickly close your eyes, or just pretend you
haven't seen it. Anything, but not this. It looks utterly silly.
As far as I can tell, the only two persons who do this, are you
and Androcles. Surely you don't want to be associated with
Androcles?

Dirk Vdm
Pmb - 31 Dec 2006 20:33 GMT
>>>>> An Alternative to the conventional Minkowski Metric.
>>>>> ======================================
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> If you killfile someone, the idea is that you cannot see what he
> writes and that you don't want to talk to the person anymore.

The problem is that my compluter is having some sort of problem today and
I'm  having trouble distinmguishing the good stuff from the bad stuff as
well as the good studd from the bad stuff. Perhaps I'll remain quite until I
can I can figure out who are the good distinghuish the the good stuff  from
bad stuff from the badread// Ibad ready.

> If you notice something he wrote through someone else's
> message, then quickly close your eyes, or just pretend you
> haven't seen it. Anything, but not this. It looks utterly silly.
> As far as I can tell, the only two persons who do this, are you
> and Androcles. Surely you don't want to be associated with
> Androcles?

Dog Read - God read stone - Good read such read.

Pete
Ken S. Tucker - 31 Dec 2006 13:02 GMT
Hi Pete, here's something you might enjoy,
I got from a post from Charles Francis...

http://dingo.care2.com/cards/flash/5409/galaxy.swf

It's the "Mrs. Brown" name that got me :-)
Happy 2007
Ken
Pmb - 31 Dec 2006 20:43 GMT
> Hi Pete, here's something you might enjoy,
> I got from a post from Charles Francis...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Happy 2007
> Ken

I'm listening to it now. Reminds me of that song "Always look at the bright
side of life."

Pete
Eric Gisse - 31 Dec 2006 03:29 GMT
> An Alternative to the conventional Minkowski Metric.
> ======================================
> In flat space you set g_00=g_11=g_22=g_33=1 and
> g_0i = -dx^i/dx^0, that works very well when merging
> SR with GR.

Um, Ken. That's Euclidian space.

[...]
Koobee Wublee - 31 Dec 2006 21:31 GMT
> An Alternative to the conventional Minkowski
> Metric.

For general spacetime, we have

ds^2 = g_ij dq^i dq^j

Where

**  i, j = 0, 1, 2, 3

Expanding the above, we have

ds^2 = g_00 dq^0 dq^0 + g_0i dq^0 dq^i
    + g_i0 dq^i dq^0 + g_ij dq^i dq^j

Where

**  i, j= 1, 2, 3
**  g_0i = g_i0

Because of the symmetry in the metric matrix, the spacetime becomes

ds^2 = g_00 dq^0 dq^0 + 2 g_0i dq^0 dq^i
    + g_ij dq^i dq^j

By dividing both sides by ds^2, we have

g_00 dq^0/ds dq^0/ds + 2 g_0i dq^0/ds dq^i/ds
    + g_ij dq^i/ds dq^j/ds = 1

By dividing both sides by (dq^0)^2 / g_00, we have

(1/g_00) ds/dq^0 ds/dq^0 - 2 (g_0i/g_00) dq^i/dq^0
    - (g_ij/g_00) dq^i/dq^0 dq^j/dq^0 = 1

These Lagrangians would yield more colorful Euler-Lagrange equations.
Ken S. Tucker - 31 Dec 2006 22:02 GMT
> > An Alternative to the conventional Minkowski
> > Metric.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> By dividing both sides by (dq^0)^2 / g_00, we have

Please show your work in the step, that yields,

> (1/g_00) ds/dq^0 ds/dq^0 - 2 (g_0i/g_00) dq^i/dq^0
>      - (g_ij/g_00) dq^i/dq^0 dq^j/dq^0 = 1
>
> These Lagrangians would yield more colorful Euler-Lagrange equations.
Ken
Koobee Wublee - 31 Dec 2006 23:11 GMT
> Please show your work in the step, that yields,
>
> > (1/g_00) ds/dq^0 ds/dq^0 - 2 (g_0i/g_00) dq^i/dq^0
> >      - (g_ij/g_00) dq^i/dq^0 dq^j/dq^0 = 1

Start with

ds^2 = g_ij dq^i dq^j

Where

**  i, j = 0, 1, 2, 3

Single out g_00 term, we have

ds^2 = g_00 dq^0 dq^0 + 2 g_0i dq^0 dq^i + g_ij dq^i dq^j

Where

**  i, j = 1, 2, 3

Dividing both sides by (g_00 dq^0 dq^0), yields

ds^2 / (g_00 dq^0 dq^0) = 1 + 2 g_0i dq^0 dq^i / (g_00 dq^0 dq^0)+ g_ij
dq^i dq^j / (g_00 dq^0 dq^0)

(1/g_00) ds/dq^0 ds/dq^0 = 1 + 2 (g_0i/g_00) dq^i/dq^0 + (g_ij/g_00)
dq^i/dq^0 dq^j/dq^0

Then, rearranging the equation above, you get

(1/g_00) ds/dq^0 ds/dq^0 - 2 (g_0i/g_00) dq^i/dq^0 - (g_ij/g_00)
dq^i/dq^0 dq^j/dq^0 = 1
Ken S. Tucker - 31 Dec 2006 23:42 GMT
> > Please show your work in the step, that yields,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> (1/g_00) ds/dq^0 ds/dq^0 - 2 (g_0i/g_00) dq^i/dq^0 - (g_ij/g_00)
> dq^i/dq^0 dq^j/dq^0 = 1

Thanks that looks clear, jeesh you're sharp today.

By using g_i0 = -g_ij dq^j/dq^0

I can simplify your result to,

1 = ds^2/ (g_00 dq^0 dq^0) + g_ij dx^i dx^j /(g_00 dq^0 dq^0).

Regards
Ken
 
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