This query was also posted to sci.chem
Hi,
I'm doing a reaction similar to that of Organic Syntheses, CV 4, 234
(see: http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/prepContent.asp?prep=CV4P0234
)
In place of cyclohexanone, I'm using acetone so the desired product
after the second step is methallyl cyanide (trivial name). The first
step appears to go to completion since a full equivalent of water is
collected in the Dean Stark trap. NMR tells me decarboxylation in the
second step is incomplete and unreacted isopropylidenecyanoacetic acid
(trivial name) is carried over with product even after two
distillations. I'd like to improve on the published procedure (and
avoid wasted product in a base wash). What would be some good ideas
for promoting decarboxylation in the second step; added trace of H2SO4
or Ag2O? Suggestions? Discussion? Thanks.
dgn

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Paul J. Franklin(moderator - sci.chem.organic.synthesis)
http://organicworldwide.net/sci.chem.organic.synthesis
Georgia State University <chepjf@panther.gsu.edu>
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Uncle Al - 27 Aug 2003 13:56 GMT
> This query was also posted to sci.chem
> Hi,
> I'm doing a reaction similar to that of Organic Syntheses, CV 4, 234
> (see: http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/prepContent.asp?prep=CV4P0234
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> for promoting decarboxylation in the second step; added trace of H2SO4
> or Ag2O? Suggestions? Discussion? Thanks.
The lit prep breaks conjugation by having the (transient) carboxylate
anion go alpha to the nitrile and push the olefin into the ring.
Exo-methylenes are high energy compared to endocyclic oelfins. Your
open chain won't have that driving force. Any base sitting about will
catalyze reconjugation.
I'd do some small scale evaluations first using finely crushed (mortar
and pestle) soda lime (not Pyrex) glass. Next shot would be some
anhydrous basic anion exchange resin, then basic alumina. If that
isn't going, try acid. Maybe MgSO4(anh) for starters, then silica
gel, then juice it. If a calatyst does not dissolve in the reaction
medium it is best dispersed on an inert support.
Either way, you have to worry about catalyzed reconjugation. If the
next step for the product is a base-catalyzed condensation, does it
make a difference where the double bond starts?

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Uncle Al
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Paul J. Franklin(moderator - sci.chem.organic.synthesis)
http://organicworldwide.net/sci.chem.organic.synthesis
Georgia State University <chepjf@panther.gsu.edu>
Atlanta, GA
David Naugler - 03 Sep 2003 13:56 GMT
Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:<bii9p9$bu8@panther.Gsu.EDU>...
> David Naugler wrote:
> > This query was also posted to sci.chem
> > Hi,
> > I'm doing a reaction similar to that of Organic Syntheses, CV 4, 234
> > (see: http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/prepContent.asp?prep=CV4P0234
> > In place of cyclohexanone, I'm using acetone so the desired product
> > after the second step is methallyl cyanide (trivial name). The first
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> > for promoting decarboxylation in the second step; added trace of H2SO4
> > or Ag2O? Suggestions? Discussion? Thanks.
> The lit prep breaks conjugation by having the (transient) carboxylate
> anion go alpha to the nitrile and push the olefin into the ring.
> Exo-methylenes are high energy compared to endocyclic oelfins. Your
> open chain won't have that driving force. Any base sitting about will
> catalyze reconjugation.
> I'd do some small scale evaluations first using finely crushed (mortar
> and pestle) soda lime (not Pyrex) glass. Next shot would be some
> anhydrous basic anion exchange resin, then basic alumina. If that
> isn't going, try acid. Maybe MgSO4(anh) for starters, then silica
> gel, then juice it. If a calatyst does not dissolve in the reaction
> medium it is best dispersed on an inert support.
> Either way, you have to worry about catalyzed reconjugation. If the
> next step for the product is a base-catalyzed condensation, does it
> make a difference where the double bond starts?
Thanks. The next step involves addition of trifluoromethyl radical to
the double bond, so it does matter where the double bond sits.
One way to make trifluoromethyl radicals is by removing one electron
from trifluoroacetate at a platinum anode.

Signature
Paul J. Franklin(moderator - sci.chem.organic.synthesis)
http://organicworldwide.net/sci.chem.organic.synthesis
Georgia State University <chepjf@panther.gsu.edu>
Atlanta, GA
Muhammar - 03 Sep 2003 13:57 GMT
Uncle already pointed out the trouble with possible product
re-conjugation and the effect of exo C=C on isomeration.
But if you are actualy observing some of the right product on NMR even
now, then there is hope. I would try to add a catalytic ammount of
oxalic acid - or pyridinium tosylate or a copper (I) oxide as Cu2O,
for example) - and heat the mix with a distilation column attached
(Vigreaux, 6-10 cm) at atmospheric or only slightly reduced pressure.
As you have seen, the volatility of the intermediate is already too
high and you cannot go high vacuum because you need the temperature
also.
Best luck. If everthing else fails, you can try vacuum flash pyrolysis
on the intermediate - this is supposed to be the ultimate 19th century
organiker's joy.
Btw. what is this stuff good for? Is a cyanide alkylation with
methallyl bromide unpleasant?
Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:<bii9p9$bu8@panther.Gsu.EDU>...
> David Naugler wrote:
> >
> > This query was also posted to sci.chem
> > Hi,
> > I'm doing a reaction similar to that of Organic Syntheses, CV 4, 234
> > (see: http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/prepContent.asp?prep=CV4P0234
> > In place of cyclohexanone, I'm using acetone so the desired product
> > after the second step is methallyl cyanide (trivial name). The first
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> > for promoting decarboxylation in the second step; added trace of H2SO4
> > or Ag2O? Suggestions? Discussion? Thanks.
> The lit prep breaks conjugation by having the (transient) carboxylate
> anion go alpha to the nitrile and push the olefin into the ring.
> Exo-methylenes are high energy compared to endocyclic oelfins. Your
> open chain won't have that driving force. Any base sitting about will
> catalyze reconjugation.
> I'd do some small scale evaluations first using finely crushed (mortar
> and pestle) soda lime (not Pyrex) glass. Next shot would be some
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> next step for the product is a base-catalyzed condensation, does it
> make a difference where the double bond starts?

Signature
Paul J. Franklin(moderator - sci.chem.organic.synthesis)
http://organicworldwide.net/sci.chem.organic.synthesis
Georgia State University <chepjf@panther.gsu.edu>
Atlanta, GA
David Naugler - 05 Sep 2003 19:48 GMT
muhammar@hotmail.com (Muhammar) wrote in message news:<bj4og3$804@panther.Gsu.EDU>...
> Uncle already pointed out the trouble with possible product
> re-conjugation and the effect of exo C=C on isomeration.
> But if you are actualy observing some of the right product on NMR even
> now, then there is hope.
NMR after 2nd and 3rd redistillations don't look that different. The
unconjugated methallyl cyanide is more volatile and comes over as a
water white liquid. After time, reconjugation gives yellow colour. NMR
suggests that an equilibrium is reached between unconjugated and
reconjugated forms. Driving force towards reconjugation appears to be
not so big.
> I would try to add a catalytic ammount of
> oxalic acid - or pyridinium tosylate or a copper (I) oxide as Cu2O,
> for example) - and heat the mix with a distilation column attached
> (Vigreaux, 6-10 cm) at atmospheric or only slightly reduced pressure.
> As you have seen, the volatility of the intermediate is already too
> high and you cannot go high vacuum because you need the temperature
> also.
> Best luck. If everthing else fails, you can try vacuum flash pyrolysis
> on the intermediate - this is supposed to be the ultimate 19th century
> organiker's joy.
> Btw. what is this stuff good for?
We're trying to make isoleucine labelled with a 13C trifluoromethyl
group in the 5 position. 13C chemistry is very expensive so we need to
start a dry run first with natural abundance.
> Is a cyanide alkylation with
> methallyl bromide unpleasant?
That might work. There are several routes to methallyl cyanide.
> Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:<bii9p9$bu8@panther.Gsu.EDU>...
> > David Naugler wrote:
> > > This query was also posted to sci.chem
> > > Hi,
>
> > > I'm doing a reaction similar to that of Organic Syntheses, CV 4, 234
> > > (see: http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/prepContent.asp?prep=CV4P0234
> > > In place of cyclohexanone, I'm using acetone so the desired product
> > > after the second step is methallyl cyanide (trivial name). The first
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> > > for promoting decarboxylation in the second step; added trace of H2SO4
> > > or Ag2O? Suggestions? Discussion? Thanks.
> > The lit prep breaks conjugation by having the (transient) carboxylate
> > anion go alpha to the nitrile and push the olefin into the ring.
> > Exo-methylenes are high energy compared to endocyclic oelfins. Your
> > open chain won't have that driving force. Any base sitting about will
> > catalyze reconjugation.
> > I'd do some small scale evaluations first using finely crushed (mortar
> > and pestle) soda lime (not Pyrex) glass. Next shot would be some
> > anhydrous basic anion exchange resin, then basic alumina. If that
> > isn't going, try acid. Maybe MgSO4(anh) for starters, then silica
> > gel, then juice it. If a calatyst does not dissolve in the reaction
> > medium it is best dispersed on an inert support.
> > Either way, you have to worry about catalyzed reconjugation. If the
> > next step for the product is a base-catalyzed condensation, does it
> > make a difference where the double bond starts?

Signature
Paul J. Franklin(moderator - sci.chem.organic.synthesis)
http://organicworldwide.net/sci.chem.organic.synthesis
Georgia State University <chepjf@panther.gsu.edu>
Atlanta, GA
Steven - 30 Sep 2003 18:16 GMT
> Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:<bii9p9$bu8@panther.Gsu.EDU>...
> > David Naugler wrote:
> > > This query was also posted to sci.chem
> > > Hi,
> > > I'm doing a reaction similar to that of Organic Syntheses, CV 4, 234
> > > (see: http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/prepContent.asp?prep=CV4P0234
> > > In place of cyclohexanone, I'm using acetone so the desired product
> > > after the second step is methallyl cyanide (trivial name). The first
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> > > for promoting decarboxylation in the second step; added trace of H2SO4
> > > or Ag2O? Suggestions? Discussion? Thanks.
My suggestion would be DMAP (N,N-Dimethylaminopyridine) or chlorid
ions under nucleophilic conditions (e.g. sodium chloride in
dimethylformamide with heating).

Signature
Paul J. Franklin(moderator - sci.chem.organic.synthesis)
http://organicworldwide.net/sci.chem.organic.synthesis
Georgia State University <chepjf@panther.gsu.edu>
Atlanta, GA
LOUIS - 06 Oct 2003 16:32 GMT
*CF3-CO2H -red-> *CF3-CH=O
*CF3-CH=O + CH3-NO2(exces) -NaOH(aq)/heat-> *CF3-CH=CH-NO2 + H2O
*CF3-CH=CH-NO2 -Zn/HCl-> *CF3-CH=CH-NH2 <==> *CF3-CH2-CH=NH
*CF3-CH2-CH=NH -H2O/oxyd-> *CF3-CH2-CO2H + NH3 + H2O
(*CF3-CH2-CO2)2Ca + (CH3-CO2)2Ca (exces)-pyrolyse/distillation->*CF3-CH2-CO-CH3 + CH3-CO-CH3
+ CaCO3
*CF3-CH2-CO-CH3 + HO-CH2-CH2-NO2 (exces) -NaOH(aq)/heat-> *CF3-CH2-C(CH3)=C(NO2)-CH2OH
Alternatively to HO-CH2-CH2-NO2, CH2=O + CH3-NO2 in exces might be used.
*CF3-CH2-C(CH3)=C(NO2)-CH2OH -reducer/H2-> *CF3-CH2-CH(CH3)-C(NH2)-CH2OH
*CF3-CH2-CH(CH3)-C(NH2)-CH2OH -oxydiser-> *CF3-CH2-CH(CH3)-C(NH2)-CO2H
PhZ
> We're trying to make isoleucine labelled with a 13C trifluoromethyl
> group in the 5 position. 13C chemistry is very expensive so we need to
> start a dry run first with natural abundance.

Signature
Paul J. Franklin(moderator - sci.chem.organic.synthesis)
http://organicworldwide.net/sci.chem.organic.synthesis
Georgia State University <chepjf@panther.gsu.edu>
Atlanta, GA